FC St. Pauli

Hi Mats, after the premiere the players talked at length about Mario. What were your feelings having seen the film?

The film gives you lots to think about. That's the key point. It makes you think about why no active professional footballers have come out so far. I find it sad that in this day and age it's still difficult for a footballer to admit to his sexual orientation. It would be no problem at all if we had a gay player in the team but unfortunately no one has come out so far while still playing, so you automatically ask yourself if football, the clubs and the players are doing enough. And that's precisely why this film is important for every one of us. Very important even!

The film remained a topic of discussion in the dressing room for several days after you went to see it.

We talked a lot about it in the squad, that's true. Why is there still prejudice against homosexuality? How can we help? What are the reasons for homophobia? How would we act if one of us in the team came out? And what would be the best way to react to show it was exactly the right thing to do? I think it's very good we're still discussing the issue because all in all we still speak far too seldom about homosexuality in football.

The film addresses the issue that a player's career could be destroyed if he came out...

It's incredibly disconcerting that coming out could have such a negative effect on your career. It just shouldn't be like that anymore.

For many people it seems that football and homosexuality are still two things that don't go together unfortunately. Why is that?

I can't understand this prejudice. In football your sexual orientation is totally irrelevant and has no effect on your performance. The football world has to open up to the subject far more – just like our fans do. I think it's very important. We have to do more to make sure society finally gets that homosexuality in football is nothing bad.

As you say, we have to do more, but what exactly?

It's up to us players to create a safe space in the dressing room, for example. The dressing room is where you spend most of your time as a footballer. You have to feel at ease there, there has to be a healthy atmosphere. In this respect there's still a lot to be done in many dressing rooms in this world.

You've already played in England, Norway and Germany. Have you noticed any differences in the way the subject of homosexuality is dealt with in these countries?

When I played in England I found the football culture to be more macho-masculine – especially in the dressing room. I don't know what it's like now, but that's how I saw it at the time. Sometimes jokes were made about homosexuals. It was difficult. Here at St. Pauli I don't feel it's like that but even though we as a club are role models for others, we can't afford to rest on our laurels. We all have to be conscious of the need to keep working on this open culture and that applies to us too.

Was there any particular moment for you in England that got you thinking?

I'll give you an example. It has nothing directly to do with homosexuality, but it goes that way. When I was 15 years old, I started to reflect more on the issue of prejudice. My then girlfriend played football as well. Some of my teammates made fun of her. It simply didn't fit in with their understanding of gender roles and clichés of how a player's girlfriend had to act and present herself. How could a woman play football? For me it was sad to see. Some players were still living in the past and weren't willing to develop as people or permit society to change. But that's exactly what we should do.

And what's it like in Norway?

I think in Norway we're on the right track as well. Homosexuality has become a part of our culture. Even the Norwegian king says if you're Norwegian you can love who you want. Obviously, there are still people who have a problem with that, but homosexuality is increasingly seen as being normal. And that's good!

Thomas Hitzlsperger was the first German footballer to come out after retiring. It's four-and-a-half years ago now but the debate he kick-started abated faster than expected.

I had hoped other players would find the courage to come out because they'd seen with Hitzlsperger it was the right thing to do. I hope and I think that if one or two active players were to come out, others would follow suit and it would be considered completely natural to have gay players in the game. Our fans and we as a club would really welcome that.

Photo: FC St. Pauli